Monday, April 19, 2010

What to Do Next

What to do next:

I have noticed so far that a great many people are interested and want to help but it seems everyone is at a different point in understanding of what to do next. I figured I would take this opportunity to come up with several tasks that hopefully people will be interested in taking on.

As of right now our main goal is to come up with a plan to deal with the issue of the ‘aggressive’ geese as these geese were not given the 2-3 week postponement and still face immediate danger. I seriously urge anyone considering moving geese on their own to seek legal and professional guidance as this may be dangerous to you, the geese, or your freedom/finances. By acting professionally we will be given a great deal more tolerance and leeway than by acting out of fear or anger.

These are the problems with the ‘aggressive’ geese:

1. Geese have been reported to attack children around the property.

2. Geese have stopped people on the path and kept them from the apartments.

I realize many feel these complaints are unfounded but you should try to put yourself in the shoes of those who are making them. Maybe they really are afraid, I don’t know who they are and so long as we treat them as our enemies they will never show their faces and allow us to help them learn to live with the geese and not just fear them. Less enemies is always better. For some reason these people are afraid of geese and we can’t immediately say, without knowing, that their reason is unjust. Show them we care about their welfare too and maybe we can make very important allies.

As for solutions to these problems the following ideas are suggested, more are always welcome:

1. Find a place for these geese to live temporarily while a long term solution is worked on.

2. Find some form of sanctuary for these geese to move to permanently.

3. Find some form of rehabilitation for these geese to go to in order to bring them back around to society.

4. Bring in professionals from Fish and Wildlife and animal treatment centers to have a day at Amador Lakes devoted to teaching people and their children ways to live safely with the geese.

5. Prove that the geese truly are not at fault and these attacks are provoked.

To accomplish these solutions I suggest that each person interested pick a task from the below list and make it there own. Some may require multiple people but it would be helpful if people would post which task they picked and what they plan to do. If you have a different task or goal in mind please also post that as many people are looking for ways to help.

1. Seek out farms, sanctuaries, and place of refuge that may be willing to hold these birds temporarily. It may be necessary that they stay caged or otherwise tied during this temporary stay but again, this is a call that needs to be made by a professional.

2. Seek out places that want geese but do not have children/elderly people who may not be able to handle these more aggressive geese. Be creative, it doesn’t hurt to ask. You have the whole internet to search.

3. Talk to shelters and animal rehabilitation centers to find out what they know about un-domesticating these animals or any other options they may know of. Talk to people who have been doing this before.

4. Find ways to realistically go about creating some form of ‘Goose Day’ where people are educated about geese by professional on site. Talk to the Fish and Wildlife Services and animal hospitals to find out who may be willing to help.

5. Again, contact professionals in the animal industry to learn if these behaviors are due to something wrong with the geese or inappropriate human contact. I can hardly imagine the management could be held liable if it was proven that a goose attack was provoked.

6. Raise awareness with animal lovers everywhere to help us find solutions.

7. How motivated are you? Form a sanctuary or rehab if none exists. This likely would take longer than we have here but this is an ongoing problem across more than just our country. Sometimes the solution must lie in saving the next group of geese.

8. Research actions taken by lovers of animals deemed unacceptable to society (pit bulls) and what they have done to protect there loved ones.

9. Research the legality of what is going on. For this you should start with the Fish and Wildlife Services and work back from what you learn there.

Remember that when a solution does not present itself that is your best opportunity to change the world. Finding or creating an effective way to solve this problem could change the way geese everywhere are treated.

Things not to do:

1. Harass the management who are already working with us, the issue of not being informed is still there but we should worry about that when this is done.

2. Complain to each other. We know the problem, lets put our energy into solving it.

3. Waste time. These geese lives are at stake, time is very important.

Thank you for all your previous effort, let us not stop now that we are ahead.

Ross Bringhurst


  1. I just realized I forgot a very important peice of information. When I spoke to Ki Hwang this morning he expressed that he has tried many deterents already including the following:
    1. Herding dogs
    2. Swans
    3. Lawn treatments
    4. Chasing the geese away
    He also had good reasons why a few other simple solutions would not work (including the shrubbery and overgrown grass). It is because of these attempts that we are left to find a new and permanent solution.
    Thank you,

  2. Did Ki tell you when are these "aggressive" geese supposed to be killed and how are we to know which ones will be killed soon and which ones won't? Thank you so much Ross for bringing this to our attention and for all you have done. I spent all day on this on Facebook & calling organizations...many of my friends called Ki to address their concerns. I also got Channel 7 News to come out may air tonight. I want this to be peaceful too, but also want the killings to stop.

  3. He didn't say which geese specifically but I think this may be something he or we could find out.

  4. I commend your efforts Ross and will help in any way that I can.

  5. Thank you Ross for keeping us up to date on this issue. Education is always a good solution. We will research and see what we can contribute. The wildlife here is what makes it one of the best places to live.
    Teresa & Larry

  6. Here is another idea,
    If you see anyone being harrassed by a goose or doing something that may lead to being harrassed by a goose. Go help them, and then show them whatever it is that you do to not get harrassed by geese.
    Ask the people to relate what you have done to the management afterwards as the management has expressed that until yesterday they have only received negative comments on the geese.

  7. Teresa & Larry, please call Doug Cordell at 510.792.0222, x 143. He works at F&G and is an Advocate. He will likely have information on education.

    I am working on getting a copy of the Depredation Permit for 4/20/10.

    Has anyone witnessed the measures Ki stated he employed to remove geese?
    They are: Herding dogs, Swans, Lawn Treatments and Chasing the Geese Away
    Please let us know if you have seen any of these measures, also, it would be helpful for you to let us know if you have not witnessed any measures. I have not, over the past 3 years.
    Thanks, Alice

  8. First off, I don’t believe Ki anymore because when he and I were discussing the killings, he told me that killing the geese was the only option since “they are attacking children.” But after the media got involved, he was telling everyone that killing them was never in the plan. So I don’t believe what he says.

    As far as witnessing the measures Ki said he has taken, I have never seen any dogs herding the geese here (and I am here during the week sometimes), I have never seen anyone chase the geese away, I have not seen any swans, but I wouldn’t know if they did the lawn treatments. I did notice 2 new (super cute) geese. They looked similar to White Fronted Geese, but they were white & tan. They would hang out near the leasing office lake. I don’t see them anymore. Were they just visitors or part of the plan to help the Canada Geese? I don’t know.

    Regarding the email Ross sent about raising money, my first question is, why don’t we use the money that Ki was going to use to round up the geese and kill them? I will raise money if we have to, but Ki is now saving money from not killing them, so why can’t we use that money? We pay a lot of rent here, so I know they aren’t short money. And if this complex is owned by physicians, why can’t they donate some of their wealth?

  9. I do not support the residents of Amador Lakes paying to have five nests removed at $500 each.
    I am vehemently opposed to it actually.
    First of all, there have been a lot of conflicting stories. The media published a spin on the story - not that management was planning to remove the geese without informing its residents, but that they are becoming aggressive.
    Second, Ki mentioned that his original plan never included removing all the geese, just the one or two that were aggressive. Then he suggests the residents pay $500 per nest to have FIVE nests removed?
    What happened to the one or two aggressive birds?
    It is absolutely unacceptable for him to ask us to pay for this.

    There are too many stories here and they do not add up.
    I absolutely fully support human efforts IF there is a serious problem.
    However, I believe education is the best way to inform the residents who fear the geese, and their children, how to act around them. They are only geese afterall, not lions.

    IF it is just one bird causing the problem, or two even, they are acting according to their survival instinct - to protect the nest and their eggs. Once the goslings hatch the birds move away and do not return to the nest, so the problem resolves itself within a few months. As the goslings are hatching now, I believe it will have a natural resolution within days or weeks.

  10. To my knowledge the two whiter geese you refered to (we believe they are chinese swan geese) were taken by a resident to a farm after being warned by Ki that they were in danger from this and/or threats from residents. They are not protected like the other geese.

  11. Offer from Management,
    I was sent an offer to help pay for the moving of nests by the management last night. I expect to get more details about the offer within the next couple hours. I sent it out to those on the email list and after receiving many comments I figured it would be better to have all these comments and responses on here for everyone rather than just to me. I have sent out the following reply and asked people to post any further comments on this page.
    Ok, so it seems that the general consensus is that while people are willing to donate, most don’t think it is the best solution, at least with the present information. Ki has responded but I missed the call and he said he will be in meetings until this afternoon.
    It seems the biggest concerns are that this is not the appropriate solution and until we get more info I think this is where we will be stuck on this issue. Any other updates or suggestions are requested.

    I ask that instead of replying to this message in email, you reply on the message board ( so that everyone can see your reply and comment accordingly.

    Once I get the rest of the info I will post in on the message board rather than continuing to email everybody.

    Also, Channel 5 news was just here filming geese and asking questions. Hopefully the extra exposure will bring in some experienced people.


  12. I too have not seen any dogs here to chase away the geese - and this is a no dogs property, so having them brought in wouldn't be logical without compromising some of the policies of the residence. I have not seen any swans on the property either. Blackhawk Plaza has water similar to ours, and lots of ducks, but no Canada geese. Interestingly, they do have plenty swans.
    In retrospect, I wonder if the Chinese geese were brought in to deter Canada geese from nesting here. During their stay here I did notice how the Canada geese stayed away from them and, it seems as though there are far fewer geese here this year than in the previous years. Maybe they should be brought back! We all loved them so much.

  13. I just got off the phone with Ki Hwang, the property manager, and he has said that he is willing to have his people do the work of moving the nests so there will be no cost to the rest of us. The plan is for them to take certain nests (he said 4 or 5) that are in the areas where people have been complaining and move them to far sides of the property. He says that this should handle the problem of the aggressive geese to which I have not found or received any other immediate solution. He is able to do this with the permit he already obtained.
    The downside is obviously the eggs in the nest. I don’t expect that these eggs will hatch after being moved but we must realize that if these geese are removed by Fish and Wildlife Services the eggs will not hatch either. As much as I know everybody would like to have the eggs hatch we must realize that the environment these geese live in is not totally natural as it does not include predators which very often snatch eggs or kill goslings.
    I support this plan to move the nest more multiple reasons, the biggest being that no geese will be euthanized. I’m sure everyone here has specific geese that they are worried about more than the rest and to me this plan will save those specific geese. It is those specific geese that were a major source of motivation for me in this effort and to know they will live will mean I have succeeded.
    My second reason for supporting this plan is that, while many of you have come up with great long term plans or great arguments for why to leave the geese alone, nobody (including myself) has been able to come up with an immediate plan of action to deal with the main cause of this whole issue. Ki has stated that as he has now been made aware of the existence of the threat of the aggressive geese (again if you choose to oppose this statement, you should do it quickly and solidly) he is required by law to deal with it and if someone is injured now by a goose he would be liable. This is the only immediately viable solution I have received and I think it is a fair compromise.
    We have also discussed the long term efforts to handle geese problems but as these are not pressing and not likely as controversial I will discuss them later.
    If you are seriously opposed to plan then you should do what is necessary to come up with an immediate solution that is effective and affordable.
    Please post your responses on the message board so others can see them.
    Thank you,

  14. I work out of my apartment and have not seen any dogs or swans either. Definately lots of turkeys, I had no idea that they were broght her by management, I thought they wandered this way when the new housing was build off of Dogherty and Bollinger area. Anyway, I am also relieved to hear that the white/tan geese have found a safe home. I found that pair to be the most aggressive, but not "scary". And thank you for the above suggestion for a contact for education. Common sense is key here.
    Teresa & Larry

  15. I am currently looking for a job, and therefore spend a lot of time at the apartments and have never seen any of these measures being taken by the management. I agree the nesting geese can be a bit intimidating, but also when I've walked around the complex, I've seen children chasing the geese and ducks with sticks.Unfortunately, although children are being attacked by geese, I think parents should think about how protective they feel about their kids and apply that mentality to the geese. Parents should take the extra time to watch their kids when they are playing close to where the geese tend to roam or nest or tell their kids not to mess with them at all. I lived at a similar style complex (with geese, ducks. etc.)as a young teenager, and the property placed signs up during the nesting season to remind us that the animals were much more territorial than usual. Also, growing up in that sort of situation, I found that the geese don't generally "attack" unless you get really close or do something that provokes them first.