Wednesday, April 28, 2010

Help clean/Plan of action

Some assistance please,

So here is where we are and what is planned for the geese issue between Ki and I. If you are not in agreement with the following please feel free to say so but also take the initiative to go to Ki with a different plan of action. If you have other questions or thoughts please post them here or email me at as you see appropriate.

First I will let you know that we are going to need people to help clean up after the geese now and in the future. If you have no problem with this by all means feel free to begin, I think everybody knows where the biggest problem areas are.

When I originally spoke to Ki he stressed that there were two main problems; the aggressive geese and the over population of the geese due to no natural predators and feeding by people. The biggest effect of the overpopulation is the large amount of excrement all over the property.

He told me then that he was pushing out the day that Fish and Wildlife Services would come to handle these two issues which he stressed that they had offered to do without charging him. At that time he said that I would need to find an immediate solution to the aggressive geese and soon after a solution to over-population.

I wrote multiple times about the need to find an immediate solution and received a lot of ideas and help but no place to put the “aggressive” geese to give us more time to find another solution. When Ki called a few days later with the offer to move the nests I had no better plan of action and did not see that one was coming quickly. While I know it was not likely to be successful I also knew it was at the point where we would have to do something and the only other plan was to call the Fish and Wildlife Services, which I see as utter failure. This plan was completed about a week ago and I have heard nothing of the “aggressive” geese since. I am taking that, and the last email I received from Ki, to mean we are on to the next step.

In that original meeting we also discussed ways to control population which focused mainly on decreasing off-spring and attempting to stop feeding. He stressed here that until the population was under control he would need help with the large amount of excrement around the property. This could be either everyone helping out a little by cleaning or everyone pitching in to hire more people to clean. I have nothing set up currently to accept donations and personally plan to clean myself (although I am somewhat limited due to injury). If anyone would like to take it upon themselves to find a service for those who would rather pay please do so and post it here.

This is the issue at hand: Ki has stressed that he has heard a lot of complaints but seen little action and that if he is to take our claims seriously he needs to see that people are willing to work/pay to keep the geese issue in our control.

As far as population control we need to come up with new methods of convincing people that feeding the geese is not a good idea and also find ways to reduce the number of nests built on Amador Lakes. This could be done by reducing nesting materials or taking down nests as they are being built which I think would encourage the geese to move on. Ki has suggested an approach known as ‘addling’ the eggs which unfortunately may be necessary but I hope we could ‘convince’ the geese to nest elsewhere instead. Due to the lack of natural predators though, I do understand this may be necessary. A meeting of some type to discuss these things would probably help and if anybody is interested in setting that up please do so. Ki also offered the use of the clubhouse for an informative type gathering as was previously suggested by many people.

Thank you again for all your help and please remember that we have not won yet. It will take effort from everyone who loves the geese to keep them a part of our community.



  1. Overpopulation? He can't be serious. There are fewer geese here this year than in the years before. Last year there were easily close to 100 geese. I don't understand why suddenly "overpopulation" seems to be an issue to him this year.

    For next year if residents are notified of the geese when they move in, and through monthly newsletters, we can work together to discourage nesting in areas that are inappropriate (on rooftops, near anyone who does not wish to have the geese near them etc). I support removing any nests that they begin to develop in the areas that they are not welcome. I would appreciate if management understood that we cannot prevent all geese from nesting here, but we can selectively limit and control the areas in which they do nest. If it is not a suitable environment they will not nest. That being said, if they do nest and lay eggs, we are by law entitled to respect them, and leave them alone.

    Also, there are natural predators around. Weeks ago I saw a fox or a coyote, and I have seen many birds of prey. There is a vast green space across the street, and many wild animals live there as well, including predators who do come onto this property. Humans are also predators to them. This is a safe environment, but it is not safer than it would be had the birds chose to nest in other areas. It has its dangers, in different forms.

    Re: the excrement - there is a lot of supporting evidence that says this is not a health threat, however we can do our work to keep the grounds aesthetically pleasing to all who visit and live here. My suggestion is to have the ability to hose away the feces once a week or as many times as is necessary. With all the water around this should not be an issue. With managements support this is easy to do and I am sure all residents would be willing, provided the resources.

  2. Melanie, I agree completely with all you have written. Thank you for your analysis and sage comments.
    I too, have seen many predators come down from the hills; coyotes, foxes and racoons. This is why 8 goslings become 6, then 4, then 2 or 3. The devastation is even greater with the domestic ducks and mallards.

    Kei has stated predators are not a problem. As we have have witnessed, he is completely out of touch with reality. Kei does not live here and does not see who comes down from the hills late at night and in the early mornings.

    Overall, I am so disappointed in how Kei (Kei represents Amador Lakes Management) has handled all of this, and how he as repeatedly taken action without keeping residents in the loop, I am wanting to move. I feel very un-valued as a rent paying resident. This is very sad, while I have loved the ambiance, it has become tainted. I feel like the goose pacing and crooning because my life mate is gone. I do not ever want to experience this again. So, I will seek another place to live and will regret my 4+ years at Amador Lakes.

  3. You have to be kidding me, I will NOT PAY for something Amador Lakes is responsible for, cleaning up geese feces. Amador Lakes uses the geese as a draw to get new renters to move in. For what I pay to live here I could make a house payment.
    Ross, sorry you are somewhat limited due to injury and cannot participate, I object to performing a duty Management is responsible for.

    How is this, I have lived here 4 years and have Never been in any of the pools or the workout room, that should count for some savings as these items are part of my exhorbitant rent over the past 4 years.

    Really, asking residents to pay extra or do clean up is ridiculous.

    I am sure the Labor Unions, State, City, and County Government Agencies, ie OSHA, Environmental Protection Agency, F&W, F&G, FOIA have very specific rules regarding management of goose feces.

    Labor Unions will demand only their laborers be allowed to perform these duties.

    I have a serious issue with Ki's statement:
    Ki has stressed that he has heard a lot of complaints but seen little action and that if he is to take our claims seriously he needs to see that people are willing to work/pay to keep the geese issue in our control.

    The following have been offered to Ki, 4/13/10:

    First Recommendation: Invite Migratory Bird Experts to educate residents, given to Ki 4/13.

    Second Recommendation: Persue non-lethal methods to reduce goose poulation.
    While Ki has stated he has done this not one resident queried ever saw a dog, heard a whistle, or saw a decoy used.
    Ki has stated Kentucky Blue Grass and hedges would not work, WHY?

    Sometimes people do not hear because they do not listen. In my perspective residents have been emphatically clear in what they do and do not want to see.
    Where is Ki missing the message?

    Third Recommendation: Ki also offered the use of the clubhouse for an informative type gathering as was previously suggested by many people.

    Wow this is great, when is it going to happen?

    Now that geese and turkeys are missing and eggs have been sprayed (with no notice from Ki) I can't wait for what information Ki has to share, Next (shudder). Yeah, Please schedule this!

    I moved here 4 years ago and bought the story of living with the wildlife. Well, how Ki has handled the recent complaints pro and con geese has deeply upset me. I am no longer feeling the ambiance I was promised when I moved in.

    There is a lack of trust, a feeling of "what next?" when a concern may be raised over the wildlife.

    I desperately tried to impress upon Ki over a phone call on 4/13 the importance of communication with residents. Ki agreed to place posters regarding next steps regarding the rumors of killing geese on every mailbox, and agreed to keep residents involved in any actions.
    To date, 4/28, no information has been posted by Ki, while he has authorized actions: eggs have been sprayed and geese are missing. There has been no mass communication to Residents.

    Does this mean I cannot trust Ki's word? I know that I cannot, after a clear converstiion with Ki. I was sure to confirm I was asking for information for residents regarding any and all efforts taken by Any government agency to depredate geese and nests or addle nests. When Ki and I spoke, he did confirm his understanding of my request. Since then, Ki has fully disregarded our converstation and has not followed through on any of my "full disclosure" requests.
    Please consider Caution when speaking with Ki, in my experience he will tell you what he thinks you want to hear (to pacify you) but will act on his own behalf. Ki is out for Ki.

    And, thus said, I am out for me, looking for a safer place to live where I feel I can trust the Management. By safer I mean I need to have a trustworthy relationshiop with the Managers.

    Ki, you are a sad disappointment. If you are working toward a society ruled by a dictator, you are perfect in your current role.

  4. I would be willing to help clean up if that is what it takes. HOWEVER, I don't feel that it is the residents' responsibility to do this or to pay to have it done. This is as natural as trees dropping their leaves. If you want no cleanup, then cut down all the trees and fill in the lake with concrete. We moved here for the ambience and we certainly pay enough rent to cover a little cleanup.

    Also, I'm not sure that even doing this will convince management to leave well enough alone. It's clear, that they have been presented with some alternatives, but I don't see any attempt to discuss them or to communicate with residents about the issue or what is being done/not being done on this.

    I do believe that the geese population has decreased noticeably over the last week or so and I believe that something did happen to cause that, but other than acknowledging that several nests were sprayed and/or moved, so far noone has been upfront and communicated anything else to us.

    As someone mentioned above, I have also noted the new chick population getting smaller and then smaller again and I hope that this is due to "natural" causes, although the rate does seem higher to me than in years past.

    We are simply asking for some communication and honesty from management as well as the willingness to discuss and not automatically dismiss alternatives as unworkable.

    What is the bottom line issue - is it aggressive geese or is it the mess? What have they done so far? What are they planning on doing AND WHEN? What have they/are they considering as alternatives? What have they actually tried, if anything? What is it they need/expect from us, the residents? How do they plan on handling this issue in future? Unless they take preventative steps now, we will be going through this all over again. In my opinion, discouraging the geese from nesting in such large numbers is far better than killing them off after the fact. Maybe it's time to think about that NOW.

    What are our options, if any? I really feel that management is not open to really listening and is only giving lipservice, if even that.
    I fear that no matter what we offer to do, they will go ahead as planned and this both saddens and angers me.

    I would welcome a meeting of some sort to discuss what they would want from us and what we would expect from them. It seems like it would be in managment's best interest to communicate to the residents what is going on and to make an attempt to actually plan an opportunity for discussion.

  5. Hello,
    I realize everyone has issues with the idea of residents helping clean up after the geese. The fact of the matter is that we want the geese here and they don't so if we want to keep them we have to do something. This is what was offered in negotiations. I don't think Ki is planning to wait much longer so please realize that complaints without action are worth next to nothing at this point.
    I think the meeting is a great idea and if someone would like to organize that it would be great. I will be out of the state until next saturday (5/8) and would appreciate if it could be planned for after that.
    For now, anyone who helps clean up is buying us time to solve this issue.

  6. So is this why they didn't do "goose cleanup" on Thursday as they usually do? Is management going to let it all pile up to make their point? There are far less geese now than there were three weeks ago and even in years past. What do they want? ZERO geese?

  7. Ross, is Ki still planning to kill the geese? “I don't think Ki is planning to wait much longer” concerns me. I thought the killing of the geese was over since Amador Lakes already killed the unhatched chicks and who knows what they did to some of the adults. “We want the geese here and they don't so if we want to keep them we have to do something”…is Ki going to take the advice of one of the writers on this blog and put concrete in the fountains, pools and get rid of grass, etc.? The geese are going to come here every year, so if Ki ends up killing more geese, they will just come back. If you’re talking about Ki not waiting much longer for us to get together and clean up the poop, well then he is just completely taking advantage of us. Ki is taking advantage of the fact that we care about the geese. Now that he knows some of us care, he is going to take advantage of that and have us do the cleanup when Amador Lakes has been doing it for years! He is thinking, “Why should I have to pay for the goose clean-up when I have these individuals that will do it for free!” He is totally taking advantage of the situation!

    I don’t trust Ki at all. There are much less geese around, so why are the geese still a problem for Ki? I have noticed there are several geese near the North entrance, so anyone living over there might think there are too many geese, but if you walk the entire property, there aren’t many around. Amador Lakes definitely did not clean up the poop on Thursday, so like I said, they are taking advantage of us caring about the geese.

    I gave Ki some help in the beginning and he didn’t take the offers, so I am upset with him and with this situation.

  8. Ok, I have waited long enough!
    Ki said he would post updates regarding management of the geese at mailboxes, has anyone seen one?
    Ki said he would host a discussion at the clubhouse for residents to discuss conccerns. Did anyone see a meeting posted? If so, what was the outcome?
    Ki said non-lethal methods had been tried and did not work to discourage geese from coming here and mating. Have you seen barking dogs, heard horns, or seen decoys? I have only been here 4+ years and live on the largest part of the lake, while I am home 5 days a week I must have missed these numerous attempts. Who saw what? Please respond to this blog.
    Ki said Kentucky Blue Grass and hedges at the waters edge will not work, I ask why not? Has Ki or anyone had an answer?

    Ki, I am holding you accountable to arrange a meeting with the renters of Amador Lakes to discuss solutions for wildlife management.

    Renters, this season I have seen nests destroyed, and dead geese floating in the lake and laying on land. The geese families are mysteriously low and each family has about 2 goslings, very unusual.
    Also, what has happened to the 20+ Turkeys, we currently have around 4.
    So, Ki, when do we meet to discuss our concerns? You said we offered "no solutions" and I feel we offered many solutions. You said you would keep us in the loop,but you have not sent us any communications.
    So Ki, your time to speak up is here. I know we are only "renters" and you can think of us as being at your mercy. But, just as the vacancy rate here is high, and we are offered low mortgage interest rates, I encourage you not to put all your eggs in one basket, one of your staff may spray it.
    Please give us the dignity of meeting with us renters (although we may not seem deserving of your dignity because we are only renters); the sooner the better. Renters are still angry and stewing over being deceived by management.

    Of course, I do not for any reason think Ki cares about the feelings of residents, he sees us as a commodity. For this reason I fully expect him to not make any move to meet with us. He has not communicated with us because we have no meaning to him. "Just pay your rent and shut-up!"
    Ok, Ki, I got your message!

  9. Ok, I can see removing a few aggressive geese or possibly "thinning the herd", so to speak, of an overly massive goose population. But in the last 5 years I have lived here, this season seems to be the least amount of geese around the lakes. How does that make this year different or constitute in any way an over population of geese? I don’t get it. Perhaps it’s because someone’s kid got bit by a goose which was probably due to provocation in the first place. I have seen many kids chasing them and throwing sticks and rocks at them. Naturally the geese are going to protect themselves and their young. Or is it because someone ended up with a nest at their front door? The geese probably thought is was a safe place. If it’s that big of a deal, move THAT nest but leave the rest alone if no one is being bothered.

    I firmly agree that residents should not feed the geese. This is a big problem and does represent a significant impact on the geese approaching people fearlessly. Leave them alone and they will leave us alone. Its nature folks, let nature take its course and just sit back and enjoy it. However, I guess that’s a moot point now as measures have obviously been taken to eradicate our natural surroundings.

    I read in the Pleasanton Weekly that measures of sorts have been implemented over the years to help detour the geese. One of the previous measures implemented was the introduction of turkeys to ward them off. Ok, so we all have seen what that has done for the community. An over population of turkeys that literally destroy the landscape and property. Think about it. Geese are migratory birds. They travel long distances and search for a place to nest and raise their young. It won’t matter how you try to eradicate those that are here now, there will be others next season and the next and so on.

    What about the ducks? They migrate here as well and I have never heard of any one having a problem with them. There are a few ducks here that have been here for years and years and I haven’t seen but a few of them in a week. Did they get taken away as well? What about the other wild birds the come here? The Cormorants, the Egret’s, the Coot’s and the occasional Tufted Duck we have seen on the lakes? Are they at risk as well? We are well on our way into spring and I haven’t seen many, if any, of those birds here this season. I think part of that might be due to poor maintenance of the lake system, but that’s a whole different subject. I happen to know the company that does the lake maintenance, because I have used them, and they aren’t very reputable.

    As for community notifications by the management, I haven’t seen or heard anything from them. I have to get my information from the papers or blogs or a family member who happens to be an animal control officer. This is not a good way for a property management company to operate. Public relations are one of the most important aspects of property management and I see no evidence of that aspect toward our community here.

    I too am considering moving to a better environment. And with that said, I would advise the property management to closely look at how they handle this and future community issues. They already have a high vacancy rate and it could get a lot worse very quickly.

  10. I just saw this blog about the geese. I am a resident at Amador Lakes and have enjoyed the natural atmosphere it offers for several years. I too have seen the decrease in wild birds and lack of maintenance of the lake and lake areas. I have read and heard people say that several tenants have moved out due to the geese. Now after reading this blog I tend to wonder how many tenants may move out due to poor property management, their lack of communication to their tenants and this goose issue resolution.

    Google Amador Lakes and you will find an abundant array of articles and reviews describing the property with words like “surrounded by natural beauty”, “view of the sparkling blue lake“ (I don’t think I have ever seen it blue or sparkling), “graceful Canadian Geese” and “beautiful Mallard Ducks”. One of the posts I read was referring to the management company using the wildlife as a lure to rent here. I would tend to agree with that.

    I am going to keep up with this and see what happens. The out come just might influence my lease renewal.

  11. Yes, Amador Lakes defintely uses the geese and wildlife as a draw to new renters.

    Ki, you are a disaster as a leader, you are not competent for your role. Please post the name of your Superior. As tennants we have the right to know who your report to.

    I have recommended for several months that Amador Lakes provide education to new tennants regarding "Living Among Wild Life". Amador Lakes has not done this.

    I have recommended for several months that Amador Lakes provide an Education Meeting for all Tennants on "Living Among Wild Life". Amador Lakes has not done this.

    The Fish and Game Staff provide this education at no cost...........

    So, why have my numerous requests for education been ignored?
    (my guess is that it is more important to get renters to agree to move in and sign "do not feed" policies)

    If people are moving out "because of the geese" should they have been informed of what it means to live with geese? They may have learned that Amador Lakes was not suitable to them.

    My guess is Amador Lakes is so anxious to sign up new tennants that they do not disccuss what it means to live with gesse other than the "no feeding" clause in the rental agreement.

    As to tennants cleaning Hazardous Waste: ie goose poop, I have seen neighbors doing this, and God Bless them. I have never agreed to participate, feeling this should be covered in the exhorbitiant rent I pay.

    In short, I have requested 2 things: Education for folks moving in (see above) and Education for current tennants (see above).

    I take offense to Ki's statements of nobody offering nothing. Ki does not want to hear what we have to offer.
    Also, as to Ki having nests disrupted, nests addled, and eggs oiled................ while I fully do not agree, and cannot change this, we will see how this plays out.

    My guess is the geese who have been coming here year after year will move on, and new geese will appear.
    At that time we will experience a whole new set of geese and their behaviors.

    Ki goes down as one of my least respected persons in history. He has handled communication to tennants poorly, and I continue to feel like a "Went Paying Widget".

    I am ambivalent about Ki's statemtents of what residents would accept in regards to managing the geese per Ki's statement: "on my property".

    I was not aware Ki owned Amador Lakes, and is therefore entitled to act as a Dictator. If Ki does not solely own Amador Lakes he is still acting as a Dictator. Amador Lakes is registered as a California Limited Partnership, I'd like to know who the owners are?
    To date, the names of the owners have been kept very secret. I have asked for the names of the owners several times and have been ignored.

    I wonder if the owners are aware of the plans to destroy nests and addle nests??????????????????

    Ki has said he has received no tennant feedback.

    My repeated requests (feedback) remains the same:
    Provide education to new and current tennants regarding "Living Among Wild Life". This has not changed from day one, but has been fully ignored. (Not sure Ki Undertands this.)

    If new renters and current tennants understood what it means to live with wild life, including mating season and young gosling season, Amador Lakes would attract folks who honored nature.

    Once again, I cannot stress the improtance of

  12. I COMPLETELY agree with the above! I offered Ki help back in April, so that pisses me off that he’s acting like we haven’t done anything. I knew he was a bad manager, but now to read that email from Ki (that Ross sent) saying we haven’t offered to help and complaining that we aren’t cleaning up the goose droppings makes me SO angry!! The property management has always cleaned up the goose droppings…Ki just wants us to do HIS work for him! No way! We pay enough rent that the management can afford to pay for the cleanings. I think it’s hilarious that he said more tenants have moved out because of the geese, like it’s our (those who want the geese here) fault that they moved out. Ummm, duh? The geese are ALWAYS going to come here unless you remove all of the lakes, ponds, grass…everything; or if he uses one of the many ways to keep geese away (which we all know he hasn’t tried). Does he think we are idiots and we don’t know this? So Ross, you want a solution for all of this? I think the best solution is to get Ki fired. I’m not a sucker and I won’t be falling for his demands for us to do his work! I wish they would post some Geese Crossing signs & have some small lights on the sides of the roads because someone ran over a goose the other night. I saw it lying (dead) in the road, close to the management office right near the lake. If you walk over there, you can see all of the blood on the street. It’s terrible. Maybe Ki ran over it? Education is key, but how do we help this situation when we have a manager who lies and lies and doesn’t accept our help?

  13. First the geese, now this terrible crime that happened today. Check it out:

  14. When I first moved here several years ago, Amador Lakes was the "crème de la crème" of complexes to live in, in the Tri Valley Area.
    Now, I have to admit I am not so comfortable living here. I have seen more police cars in the last few months than I have seen in all the years I have lived here. To top it off, Amador Lakes made news headlines and television with the recent rash of tire slashing’s by vandals. I am sure that we are now a target for more vandalism, or worse.
    What has this place come too? I can't believe how "down hill" it's gotten in such a short time. I have watched as tenants have moved in and the same tenants move right back out. I have seen so many moving trucks loading up that it makes me wonder.

  15. I also helped clean somewhat up in my area of the complex. But honestly, have not continued to do so. I don't feel it's our job to clean up. Do they also expect us to clean up the leaves or the sap that falls from the trees? What about all the fast food trash that people seem to leave around? I also honestly think this isn't going to make a difference. I honestly believe that Ki/Management are going to do whatever they want, regardless, and that all they've been giving us is lip-service so they can then blame any future actions on our reluctance to clean up the complex.

    However, for as much as I think they've mishandled this situation entirely, calling names and blaming them for EVERY bad thing that happens here is not the answer. I can't put the blame for the latest tire-slashing incident on the management. It would be one thing if they had done something to promote or encourage crime in the complex or had failed to do something to prevent it. I don't see ANY way they could have prevented something like this. I think we should put the blame where it belongs in this case -- with those who slashed the tires in the first place. Management - I'm assuming it was Ki - was right out there with the residents and the police that morning. Many residents received phone calls that morning to let them know about the situation - whether they were personally affected or not. This is more about living in a society where people do stupid things than it is about bad management.
    (Although I do have to admit, I'm surprised they haven't asked the residents to do neighborhood watch duty along with cleaning up after the geese!)

    So yes, I'm VERY disappointed in how the management has handled the goose/wildlife situation. But, I have to be fair to them as well. You can't expect them to be responsible for EVERY bad thing that happens.

  16. I don't understand the last post. Who is blaming the management on the tire slashings on this blog? I don't see anyone blaming management for the tire slashings. Can you explain why you think people are blaming management?

  17. If you thought my previous post about the tire slashings and the amount of police cars recently was in any way blaming the management, I am sorry you may have thought that. In no way was I pointing any fingers at the management. What I was trying to convey was the fact that with all the recent police activities and move outs, I am not a comfortable living here as I was several years ago. It just seems the neighborhood is deminishing in some of the qualities which originaly motivated me to move here.