Wednesday, April 28, 2010

Help clean/Plan of action

Some assistance please,

So here is where we are and what is planned for the geese issue between Ki and I. If you are not in agreement with the following please feel free to say so but also take the initiative to go to Ki with a different plan of action. If you have other questions or thoughts please post them here or email me at as you see appropriate.

First I will let you know that we are going to need people to help clean up after the geese now and in the future. If you have no problem with this by all means feel free to begin, I think everybody knows where the biggest problem areas are.

When I originally spoke to Ki he stressed that there were two main problems; the aggressive geese and the over population of the geese due to no natural predators and feeding by people. The biggest effect of the overpopulation is the large amount of excrement all over the property.

He told me then that he was pushing out the day that Fish and Wildlife Services would come to handle these two issues which he stressed that they had offered to do without charging him. At that time he said that I would need to find an immediate solution to the aggressive geese and soon after a solution to over-population.

I wrote multiple times about the need to find an immediate solution and received a lot of ideas and help but no place to put the “aggressive” geese to give us more time to find another solution. When Ki called a few days later with the offer to move the nests I had no better plan of action and did not see that one was coming quickly. While I know it was not likely to be successful I also knew it was at the point where we would have to do something and the only other plan was to call the Fish and Wildlife Services, which I see as utter failure. This plan was completed about a week ago and I have heard nothing of the “aggressive” geese since. I am taking that, and the last email I received from Ki, to mean we are on to the next step.

In that original meeting we also discussed ways to control population which focused mainly on decreasing off-spring and attempting to stop feeding. He stressed here that until the population was under control he would need help with the large amount of excrement around the property. This could be either everyone helping out a little by cleaning or everyone pitching in to hire more people to clean. I have nothing set up currently to accept donations and personally plan to clean myself (although I am somewhat limited due to injury). If anyone would like to take it upon themselves to find a service for those who would rather pay please do so and post it here.

This is the issue at hand: Ki has stressed that he has heard a lot of complaints but seen little action and that if he is to take our claims seriously he needs to see that people are willing to work/pay to keep the geese issue in our control.

As far as population control we need to come up with new methods of convincing people that feeding the geese is not a good idea and also find ways to reduce the number of nests built on Amador Lakes. This could be done by reducing nesting materials or taking down nests as they are being built which I think would encourage the geese to move on. Ki has suggested an approach known as ‘addling’ the eggs which unfortunately may be necessary but I hope we could ‘convince’ the geese to nest elsewhere instead. Due to the lack of natural predators though, I do understand this may be necessary. A meeting of some type to discuss these things would probably help and if anybody is interested in setting that up please do so. Ki also offered the use of the clubhouse for an informative type gathering as was previously suggested by many people.

Thank you again for all your help and please remember that we have not won yet. It will take effort from everyone who loves the geese to keep them a part of our community.


Wednesday, April 21, 2010

Moving the nests

It was requested that I repost this as a new topic.

I just got off the phone with Ki Hwang, the property manager, and he has said that he is willing to have his people do the work of moving the nests so there will be no cost to the rest of us. The plan is for them to take certain nests (he said 4 or 5) that are in the areas where people have been complaining and move them to far sides of the property. He says that this should handle the problem of the aggressive geese to which I have not found or received any other immediate solution. He is able to do this with the permit he already obtained.
The downside is obviously the eggs in the nest. I don’t expect that these eggs will hatch after being moved but we must realize that if these geese are removed by Fish and Wildlife Services the eggs will not hatch either. As much as I know everybody would like to have the eggs hatch we must realize that the environment these geese live in is not totally natural as it does not include predators which very often snatch eggs or kill goslings.
I support this plan to move the nest more multiple reasons, the biggest being that no geese will be euthanized. I’m sure everyone here has specific geese that they are worried about more than the rest and to me this plan will save those specific geese. It is those specific geese that were a major source of motivation for me in this effort and to know they will live will mean I have succeeded.
My second reason for supporting this plan is that, while many of you have come up with great long term plans or great arguments for why to leave the geese alone, nobody (including myself) has been able to come up with an immediate plan of action to deal with the main cause of this whole issue. Ki has stated that as he has now been made aware of the existence of the threat of the aggressive geese (again if you choose to oppose this statement, you should do it quickly and solidly) he is required by law to deal with it and if someone is injured now by a goose he would be liable. This is the only immediately viable solution I have received and I think it is a fair compromise.
We have also discussed the long term efforts to handle geese problems but as these are not pressing and not likely as controversial I will discuss them later.
If you are seriously opposed to plan then you should do what is necessary to come up with an immediate solution that is effective and affordable.
Please post your responses on the message board so others can see them.
Thank you,

The Need for Resolution

We need to effectively come up with an agreeable solution to resolve the issue as presented over the last several days.

I propose that we form a public meeting, wherein the residents of Amador Lakes and the management are invited to attend to openly discuss the issues and come to a reasonable resolution.

Is this something that interests anyone else?

Monday, April 19, 2010

What to Do Next

What to do next:

I have noticed so far that a great many people are interested and want to help but it seems everyone is at a different point in understanding of what to do next. I figured I would take this opportunity to come up with several tasks that hopefully people will be interested in taking on.

As of right now our main goal is to come up with a plan to deal with the issue of the ‘aggressive’ geese as these geese were not given the 2-3 week postponement and still face immediate danger. I seriously urge anyone considering moving geese on their own to seek legal and professional guidance as this may be dangerous to you, the geese, or your freedom/finances. By acting professionally we will be given a great deal more tolerance and leeway than by acting out of fear or anger.

These are the problems with the ‘aggressive’ geese:

1. Geese have been reported to attack children around the property.

2. Geese have stopped people on the path and kept them from the apartments.

I realize many feel these complaints are unfounded but you should try to put yourself in the shoes of those who are making them. Maybe they really are afraid, I don’t know who they are and so long as we treat them as our enemies they will never show their faces and allow us to help them learn to live with the geese and not just fear them. Less enemies is always better. For some reason these people are afraid of geese and we can’t immediately say, without knowing, that their reason is unjust. Show them we care about their welfare too and maybe we can make very important allies.

As for solutions to these problems the following ideas are suggested, more are always welcome:

1. Find a place for these geese to live temporarily while a long term solution is worked on.

2. Find some form of sanctuary for these geese to move to permanently.

3. Find some form of rehabilitation for these geese to go to in order to bring them back around to society.

4. Bring in professionals from Fish and Wildlife and animal treatment centers to have a day at Amador Lakes devoted to teaching people and their children ways to live safely with the geese.

5. Prove that the geese truly are not at fault and these attacks are provoked.

To accomplish these solutions I suggest that each person interested pick a task from the below list and make it there own. Some may require multiple people but it would be helpful if people would post which task they picked and what they plan to do. If you have a different task or goal in mind please also post that as many people are looking for ways to help.

1. Seek out farms, sanctuaries, and place of refuge that may be willing to hold these birds temporarily. It may be necessary that they stay caged or otherwise tied during this temporary stay but again, this is a call that needs to be made by a professional.

2. Seek out places that want geese but do not have children/elderly people who may not be able to handle these more aggressive geese. Be creative, it doesn’t hurt to ask. You have the whole internet to search.

3. Talk to shelters and animal rehabilitation centers to find out what they know about un-domesticating these animals or any other options they may know of. Talk to people who have been doing this before.

4. Find ways to realistically go about creating some form of ‘Goose Day’ where people are educated about geese by professional on site. Talk to the Fish and Wildlife Services and animal hospitals to find out who may be willing to help.

5. Again, contact professionals in the animal industry to learn if these behaviors are due to something wrong with the geese or inappropriate human contact. I can hardly imagine the management could be held liable if it was proven that a goose attack was provoked.

6. Raise awareness with animal lovers everywhere to help us find solutions.

7. How motivated are you? Form a sanctuary or rehab if none exists. This likely would take longer than we have here but this is an ongoing problem across more than just our country. Sometimes the solution must lie in saving the next group of geese.

8. Research actions taken by lovers of animals deemed unacceptable to society (pit bulls) and what they have done to protect there loved ones.

9. Research the legality of what is going on. For this you should start with the Fish and Wildlife Services and work back from what you learn there.

Remember that when a solution does not present itself that is your best opportunity to change the world. Finding or creating an effective way to solve this problem could change the way geese everywhere are treated.

Things not to do:

1. Harass the management who are already working with us, the issue of not being informed is still there but we should worry about that when this is done.

2. Complain to each other. We know the problem, lets put our energy into solving it.

3. Waste time. These geese lives are at stake, time is very important.

Thank you for all your previous effort, let us not stop now that we are ahead.

Ross Bringhurst

Important Update- Good news

Hello and Thank You so much to all that have aided in this campaign,

I have spoken with Ki Hwang, the Property Manager of Amador Lakes about our concerns for the geese. I will begin with the good news as I’m sure everybody could use some by now. He has decided to put the Fish and Wildlife Services on hold for 2-3 weeks while we work to come up with solutions to the problems he originally contacted them over. He also told me that the families are not to be separated. To me, this is a wonderful start to us coming to an agreement.
On the bad side he has told me that there have been multiple reports of children being attacked by geese and these are the geese we need to immediately concern ourselves with as his biggest fear is the welfare of these children and the possible legal actions that may ensue. This issue needs to be solved As Soon As Possible. My hope is that we can find an alternative to the destruction of these geese, likely involving relocation to some type of sanctuary or maybe even a rehab if such a place exists. I am asking you to find these places to house these geese before we loose this opportunity. I am sure many will want to argue that these geese are not truly aggressive but remember we would like to have these animals continue their lives, even if it is not with us, and so this effort should come first. If you pursue the argument for the geese to remain I advise doing this by consulting professional advice as to the determination of safety and/or the rehabilitation of these animals or finding ways to make this environment safe for everybody. Legal advice may also be useful as I believe if we could remove the threat of lawsuit and the threat to safety there may be a chance to keep these birds. Possibly someone could even find a temporary home for them in the mean time. Lastly keep in mind there are many laws concerning these birds and I advise you learn about them before jumping to drastic action.
The other main concern which is the one we really have the postponement on is the health concerns due to the excrement from the geese. I have heard several people state that the excrement is not dangerous to human health. I would advise here finding scientific proof of these statements that will easily hold up in court as it is again lawsuits that are of major concern. More feasible solutions may include finding ways to keep the area clean (he is concerned about the grass as well as the sidewalks). I feel these and other long term actions that will be required (including the cessation of geese feeding and enforcement of this to others on the property) are going to require a lot of effort from the people and are going to require long term solutions. All ideas are welcome.
There are a couple other things I need to address. I think that if we are to work for peace to these animals we must do so through peace. We will not convince people to be peaceful through threats of violence which I am told are being received. I talked to Ki today peacefully and we were able to work together and even offer each other solutions rather than threatening or worse. As a result, we are getting somewhere. This problem is a long way from over but hopefully we can use the network we have created to find permanent solutions that everybody can live with. I said before that my first concern is that the geese are not rounded up and euthanized nor are the families split up, second is that we get to keep them here. I think if we can show our continued dedication to long term solutions we will get many more people on our side.
Secondly, Ki has asked that as I have made so many aware of this problem, I continue to make them aware of the progress that is being made. He has asked that wherever notices were posted they be updated with new notices containing more up to date information. I feel this request is reasonable and intend to comply with it but I would greatly appreciate any help. I think we can use this to responsibly raise awareness without causing panic. Right now we need to focus of realistic solutions while still raising awareness in those we believe will share our concern. We have a large and constantly growing group of people who care about this problem. We have reached our goal of postponement and shown our ability to be heard. If it were to come to it we could easily bring this campaign back into full action and so it is no difficulty to me to ask you to help remove any postings which may cause panic over driving the need for solution. Anyone willing to help with this process please email me as this will be our initial show of good faith for the postponement we have received.
I’m sure there are many things I am forgetting to mention right now and I will try to fill in as I remember but I feel I need to get this out sooner than later and I see many messages pilling up on my phone and email which I have not yet had a chance to answer.

Thank you all again and please, any help with the reposting will be extremely helpful,
Ross Bringhurst

"Murder at Amador Lakes"

This morning I walked around and saw notifications, posted from our neighbors which means we are not alone on our quest to save the geese. The title catches your attention immediately:

Murder at Amador Lakes

Our geese came here seeking a safe place to nest, lay their eggs and raise their goslings. Luring them here with this beautiful landscape, only then to kill them is unfair and unjust. I thought Amador Lakes represents a welcome environment to all who seek the solace of nature, just east of two of California's most crowded cities.

Some of the emails we have received already express heart felt sentiment over these beautiful animals. Here is a fragment from one email we just received:

"My husband and I have spent the last 4 years we've lived here watching a few beloved goose couples (who mate for life) nest near us, keeping a vigil for the 28+ days til the eggs hatch; then enjoying watching the little ones grow up over the following spring and early summer months. It's a rare joy to get to see so much wildlife right outside our door, and it's something that has-- til now-- set this property apart from everywhere else available in the region...There are several batches of fuzzy goslings on the property now---we just saw a new batch of 5 tiny ones yesterday who had likely just hatched that morning----so cute. But I've been in tears several times this afternoon thinking about them being gassed, or poisoned, along with their parents (and proud aunties and uncles), which, from what I've read, is how they will all be killed simply because a few people don't like stepping in goose droppings"

The love expressed to our email ( has been overwhelming, and echoes the sentiment that drove us to take action against their untimely death. Please keep your emails coming both to us, and to Amador management.
We will print them all and present them to management either later this evening or tomorrow morning.

Killing our geese just as the new lives of the goslings begin is without question cruel and heartless.

Talk to management, talk to your neighbors, start a social networking group (facebook, twitter, linkedin, etc)
We have a voice! Let us be heard!

Sunday, April 18, 2010

Save the Geese, before they are gone

Did you know that the management at Amador Lakes plans to remove and likely exterminate our geese This Tuesday, April 20, 2010!

Why were we not informed of this major change?
Can we come up with no better solution?

One of the reasons I moved here, and stay here is because of these geese. I love the wildlife here. The ducks, geese and turkeys have become pets to all of us.
I can live anywhere, in any house or apartment surrounded by concrete. The ponds, fountains and wildlife here at Amador Lakes is the reason I stay.

What upsets us the most, is that we were not informed of this. In fact, this information was intentionally withheld from us!!
How could this happen?

When we first heard of this, we immediately went to the main office to speak to one of the representatives who verified that yes, the geese will be removed on Tuesday, and most likely will be euthanized.
This is not a solution.
Anyone who has lived here more than one year can verify the number of geese here this year us much lower than most years. There is no reason that the geese should be removed, and more importantly, euthanized. There are alternative solutions. They must be addressed, and the euthanization of these geese needs to be stopped!

The reasons outlined for the removal of the geese are as follows:
1. Geese are not migrating, due to the safe environment found here
2. They are becoming an inconvenience
3. Some reports of 'attacks'
4. The population is growing "out of control"
5. The feces are a major health concern

None of these are acceptable, and none of them hold any merit.
We can effectively prove that the above information is false, unwarranted information used to 'justify' the inhumane and unacceptable actions to remove the geese from this property.

1. The Canada geese ARE migrating. There was a period of time where there were only three geese that remained on this property, and one had a broken wing. The geese are migrating and will migrate again. It is what they do.
2. The geese are an inconvenience ... to whom? How? Can this be defined and outlined clearly?
3. Canada geese defend their nesting land against those who may threaten it. No serious attacks have occurred, and no animal deserves to die for its natural nesting behavior. Further, if you stand your ground the geese respond and respect you, and will not charge towards you, unless you threaten their young.
4. There are less geese here now than in the previous years.
5. It is true that some microbes live in the feces of all mammals. But the likelihood of becoming ill from exposure is so rare it is not of any concern.

Although some may express an opinion on the above matter, all of the above can be resolved without death or animal cruelty. Steps can be taken in order to minimize the future habitation of geese. To our knowledge, the management has not taken any of these steps.

1. Non-toxic land treatments that will deter geese from landing and nesting here. This acts as a natural repellant that will encourage the geese to settle elsewhere.
2. Do not feed the geese - feeding encourages aggressive behavior in some geese.
3. Predator decoys discourage geese from nesting here, as they feel threatened.
4. Other methods, some of which include special shrubbery near the waters edge, discouraging the use of the pond, goose call machines that use sound to deter geese from visiting, and specially trained dogs to chase away future nesters.

Amador Lakes is a beautiful man-made environment, created with water features and green space to act as a sanctuary for all of its residents. This includes the local wildlife. It would be unfair to assume that geese would not visit this property. It is a perfect environment for wildlife to nest and raise their young before they migrate. To have such a property and then euthanize the geese who seek a safe harbor here would be inhumane and cruel.

So long as the area remains habitable, geese will return each season. Euthanizing the geese who have landed here this year will not solve the overlying issue that management has.
Further, I as well as many of you, the residents of Amador Lakes, actually ENJOY the geese here, and welcome their habitation each year.

Please take action NOW.
We do not have any time to spare.

Send us your love story. Tell us why you love the geese, and why you love living at Amador Lakes.

Tell us how you feel about management keeping this information from us.
Tell them how you feel.
Send your email to: AND

Please CC a copy to us, at
We WILL present a detailed and printed list of all the responses received to the management. We encourage you to have your voice heard.

Amador Lakes needs to know that we do NOT agree with their cruel actions to remove and eliminate the geese who find a home here, just as we did.
This is our home. It was created for All of us.