Wednesday, April 21, 2010

The Need for Resolution

We need to effectively come up with an agreeable solution to resolve the issue as presented over the last several days.

I propose that we form a public meeting, wherein the residents of Amador Lakes and the management are invited to attend to openly discuss the issues and come to a reasonable resolution.

Is this something that interests anyone else?


  1. I would definitely be open to a meeting between management and residents as long as it continues to be handled in a professional manner - as it seems to have been so far. I think it's obvious that we are all very passionate about this subject. The management has granted us an opportunity to work this through with them and we need to be very careful as to how we present our opinions and alternatives. Confrontation will not help our case at all.

    With regards to the cost of moving nests. I would be opposed to paying for this - only because I fail to see why this is necessary. Why is it that the nests must be moved in the first place? I have personally been close numerous times to all three sets of goslings (as well as one set of ducklings) in the last few days with no attacks by either adults or babies. I enjoyed them from a distance without giving them reason to feel threatened.
    I do believe it's possible we can all live together without problems.

    Having said that, if it becomes imperative that they be moved in order to save them, I would not be opposed to helping out. However, I would want some assurance that the money was actually going towards this and that they were being moved to a safe place and not being euthanized.

    I don't believe it needs to come to this though. The babies are growing quickly and any supposedly aggressive behavior by the parents (which I have not experienced at all) should work it's way out soon.

    Thanks again for your hard work on this.

  2. I agree. I do not feel that moving all the nests is going to resolve the problem, and I definitely do not think we should be entitled to pay for this. If Ki says the problem is one or two geese - then we need to focus on them, not every goose, not every nest.

  3. I agree 100% with everything 'S' said. Well said!!

  4. My comments pretty much mirror those already stated, but just to show that there are LOTS of people who care about this topic, I'll include my two cents here. ;)

    I would be up for attending a meeting to discuss all this---and we should be sure to include all stakeholders in this situation:

    - Folks like us who want to protect the geese
    - Management representative(s)
    - The residents who have felt threatened by the geese
    - And, hopefully. a "professional", like maybe a Fish & Wildlife agent, or Lindsay Wildlife Museum representative(?), etc.

    I, too, have a couple questions about moving the nests like:

    1) where will the nests be moved to----down to the ground if they were on a carport roof? just a few yards away? off the property entirely?)

    2) I'm admittedly not a scientist, but it seems like all the goslings on the property should be hatched within the next 1-2 weeks, at which point the geese will abandon those nests (and the aggressive behavior at those locations), making this a moot point.

    3) who will be doing the actual handling of the nests---Fish & Wildlife agents? the regular maintenance guys? some other private agency?

    Let me be clear that I'm not totally disagreeing with this idea, just was curious about details.

    And I think the Property Management should be paying for the action---if any---that is eventually taken.

    I also think it'd be good if we could all hear directly from Management about the alternatives that were already tried in the past--what exactly has been tried? How long ago were these methods used? Why didn't they work? Just to give everyone a better handle on the context of the situation today.

    Thanks all!

  5. Absolutely agree with you Andrea. I would like to hear what management has to say - not in the sense of a confrontation or forcing them to defend themselves, but just to get a better understanding and clarity around the root causes, plans, and alternatives.

    I would love if this could all be reviewed later -- once the eggs have hatched, but its possible I don't have a clear understanding of the inconvenience that some residents are enduring because of the location. I am open to understanding that.

    I have heard from a recent email that the management has agreed to move the nests themselves at no expense to the tenants. While still initially opposed to moving the nests at all because of the danger to the chicks, I would agree with this if it is the absolute only way to prevent the removal and euthanization of more geese; even though it's unlikely that any unborn eggs would hatch after a move.

    Also, I would hope that there would first be some research into any 'special handling' required in moving the nests -- in order to at least try to minimize any casualties and that any move would be done with care and respect.

    Finally, I would also hope that any attempt by the parent geese to protect the nests being moved would not be viewed as "aggressive" and they would be granted a free pass - as in this case there would be somewhat extenuating circumstances.

  6. About the moving of the nests.
    Ki told me this morning that they would be moved by his people who I do not believe have any special training but were granted a permit to handle the geese. I will try to look up precautions that should be taken but if you know of any or find any please post them tonight.
    About the meeting, I think its is a great idea that will actually become a necessity to for any of the long term solutions. Ki offered the club house as a place to have the meeting and I think Andrea's idea about getting professional animal handlers here to talk about how to live amongst the geese would be the most important part.

  7. I have searched on how to move a nest, but only found that it's illegal to move them (at least in Washington it is). This website has a lot of good info:

  8. I have a call in to Marie Strausberg, she is the Migratory Bird Chief of Section 8 (Alameda County)and should be able to answer our questions about moving nests, and where eggs fall regarding F&W and F&G, etc. I am not convinced un-hatched eggs are protected as Migratory Birds after a long discussion with a Refuge Advocate, but want to check with an expert.
    Also, I have a call and e- to the clerk at the Migratory Bird Office, I am requesting a copy of the Depredation Permit. It is important that we have access to the permit, it will include actions taken by Amador Lakes to support why several non-lethal efforts have failed and now Amador Lakes is requesting to exterminate (depredate) geese.

    Please send to this blog any efforts you have witnessed to relocate/remove geese, ie dogs, swans, non-papatable seed, etc.

    I have lived here for 3 years, am home 5 days per week and have never seen any geese deterrents, so, please help me out here.

    I see per Channel 5 News that the Dept of Agriculture will not take action until all residents agree.............. wow!

    We need to meet and determine a goal, then plan of action.

    Is the goal to exterminate aggressive geese? If so, how do we assess agressive? Goose behavior pre-mating season, mating season, nesting season and once goslings hatch are all very different. Typically geese are aggressive when they feel threatened, and this does not change. We need to understand this and adapt our behavior to feel safe.

    Is the goal to eliminate the geese that currently come every year to nest? If so we need to look at hedges, Kentucky Blue Grass, and non-papaltable seed (not sure this is the best idea).

    Is the goal to control growth? If so we need to remove eggs from nests.

    One thing everyone needs to understand is that any goose can become aggressive when feeling threatened. For this reason I have impressed upon Ki the need for education from F&W or F&G on how to live peacefully with geese.

    On Monday Ki assured me he would post at each mailbox a letter indicating where we stand with the goose extermination plan and next steps, if that letter was posted, I missed seeing it. If you have a copy, please fill me in.

    On Monday. 4/25 Ki and I had a long discussion, I impressed upon him how important it was that Amador Lakes shared the extermination information from F&W with the residents. Ki said he and the management of Amador Lakes had discussed this and chose not to discuss it with tennants.
    On Monday, 4/25, I tried valiantly to find the Parent Company of Amador Lakes, per the BBB Amador Lakes is owned by A California Limited Partnership, 3 employees of Amador Lakes told me they did not have access to the information. I wanted the owners input on the situation.

    A friend said, "oh, this is business, they probably do not care about the geese." My response is "Yes, this is business if harm comes to geese many of us may move". Anyway, I am still working on this. It is interesting that many organizations have Compliance Monitors, and many vendors have numbers we can call to report concerns. The numbers we can call to report concerns or complaints are readily available, yet at Amador Lakes this seems to be well hidden. This may follow along the idea of Amador Lakes planning an extermination of geese but keeping it hidden from the residents.

    We should have a peaceful open-forum, include folks from F&W or F&G and disclose who tennants can call in the event we have concerns handed down by management. Example: If I have a concern with my Manager, I am expected to escalate it to the Department Director. So, if I have a concern with a decision made by the manangement at Amador Lakes, who do I escalate it to?

    Once I hear about the Depredation Permit and about care of eggs, I will post the information.

    My heartfelt thanks to each and every one of you!

  9. On 4/19 Ki assured me he would be posting an update regarding care of the geese and the recent extermination plan on every mailbox. Ki stated he could not manage a flyer, letter or e-mail to every resident, but he would do a post to every mailbox.

    Did anyone see a flyer from Ki at the mailbox?

    It seems Ki has had nests moved without letting residents know........... once again I am just a "rent paying widget"...............